Fighting Games Megathread: Fighting with Conviction Leads to Victory!

Scissor kicks getting blow up only once in a round can already be a big deal for Bison. He has basically no comeback potential and if he eats a single full combo you can just start chilling it out a lot of the time. What's basically going to happen is that I'll have to do random EX crushers even when I'm on pressure, therefore wasting meter that I need for defense, plus this also changes my positioning for the worse.

I'm aware that this won't be that great for most grapplers in the bigger picture, but seeing as grapplers generally are hard MUs for me as is already, I'm not liking the sound of it.

Thing is, the double Ultra options benefit some chars heavily and some hardly at all or not at all. Point in case once again (among others ofc) my own char, both Ultras are fairly shitty and aren't landed that often, while characters like Cammy now have an Ultra to cover basically everything. As you pointed out, it might mainly benefit chars that are high tier as is already, which is stupid.

Right now the game has fairly good balance, you can do well with mid and sometimes even low tiers. I'm just afraid that changes like this will kill the overall balance again.

As for unblockables, apparently they're removing them. Not by reworking the engine, but just patching every single one individually. This is a very welcome change. Not that it meant much to me since Bison has many escape options on wakeup, but in the bigger picture unblockables are stupid.

The more I think about it, the less impact I think Red Focus will have on the game. Two bar is a lot, and you can't use it in footsies at all without taking an enormous risk. As for Dictator, unless you have godlike reactions and can Red Focus during the startup of Scissor Kicks, I don't think the impact is going to be game-breaking. And who knows, maybe they're going to make Scissor Kicks an armor breaker anyway! (They'd need to do the same thing for a lot of other characters, like Dudley).

If you're really worried about Red Focus, then main Dan! He don't give a fuck cuz Saikyo style kicks are gdlk :P (Rose is another good option. Any grappler, too, since they can just cancel into SPD).

So, delayed wakeup confirmed. Also, some fun things mentioned about the new characters:

Elena: can finally actually combo against crouching characters, unlike in SFxT! YEAAAA BOIIIIII

Rolento: NO PRISONERS

Poison: More damage. Sounds cool. I dunno much about her in SFxT except that she's on the lower tiers, so hey, cool change.

Hugo: Supposed to be good at corner pressure. Honestly I'd like to see a more combo-heavy grappler (and no, Capcom, Zangief doesn't count, because he's got like TWO fucking combos.) If Hugo's Hammer Mountain became his Ultra 1 or Ultra 2 and if I could do Claps FADC into Hammer Mountain and have it combo... that would be soooo sick.

oh yeah so proximity guard os shit, charge characters get fucked once again, hope they take it out for ultra, etc. etc.

For real tho, I think cammy just became super god tier

Current changes in the loc test versions listed here:

http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2013/nov/21/e-honda-has-invincible-command-throw-sagat-u1-connects-fully-corner-and-more-reports-usf4-changes-coming-first-japan-loc-test/

No mention of proxi OS removal, but that's to be expected since it's new. They halfway implemented the changes I wanted to Zangief! :D

EXGH now knocks down, but has 3 more frames of startup so it's impossible to combo from lights (except from counterhits). I feel like 2 more frames of startup instead of 3 would have been better if they moved the cancel window back a frame on far jab (not exactly sure where it is now, but since that's the light move with the most hitstun that's where I'm guessing the problem would have been). 16 frames may make it too hard to use as an anti-fireball move, but we'll see.

Jab GH is now -2 on hit, so finally it has a use in combos. -2 is fine, though I honestly would have preferred -1 or 0 especially since...

Jab SPD range got nerfed. D:

I'm pretty happy with these changes so far, but I still think they could have been a bit softer with the nerf bat. EXGH could easily have been 15 frames startup with a slight shift in the cancel window of far jab without making it too hard to use as an anti-fireball tool, and I think a -1 (or even 0) jab GH would have been great, given that they wanted a range nerf on jab SPD. I'll wait and see though, maybe these changes along with all the other changes will make the game better!

(Jab SPD range nerf is especially bad, though, if they don't remove proxi OS! cr mk OS into jab SPD seems downright deadly, at least with the range that jab SPD has right now!)

EDIT: Standing strong got nerfed?! Aw man Capcom I think you're going too far here now. Jab SPD nerf already made Zangief footsies a lot worse, now you're going after this too?!

EDIT2: It seems they're basically copy/pasta-ing his SFxT form into USF4. I remember them nerfing his standing strong in SFxT too and I thought it was dumb as hell

EDIT3: maining hakan now lololololo

Rose changes:


   Forward dash now 20F, down from 21F
   Crouch LP damage 20 -> 30
   Crouch LK damage 30 -> 40
   Crouch MP damage 60 -> 70
   All Soul Spiral damage 100 -> 110
   EX Soul Spiral damage 120 -> 130, invincibility 11F -> 13F
   M Soul Spark start-up 22F -> 20F
   H Soul Spark start-up 29F -> 27F
   Illusion Spark start-up 12f -> 10f
   Soul Satellite input changed to 214+KKK


...

Spoiler:

Mostly, I'm happy there are no nerfs listed here. I was terrified Capcom was going to pull a classic Capcom and nerf her fireballs by adding 6 more frames of startup and recovery, or adding 6 more frames to her backdash, or something else equally stupid and nonsensical.

More damage is great since her damage was ass-tier before, and faster dash makes FADC combos easier (not to mention, probably opening up new FADC combo opportunities with the faster fireballs. She finally gets a fully invincible reversal (FINALlY). Still not really an uppercut since it's so incredibly slow, but hey, it's better than nothing. Delayed wakeup may fix the rest of her defensive wakeup concerns.

One major thing I still don't see here though: close MK needs to have a bigger hitbox. Some characters like Ibuki and Guy duck under it, essentially completely nullifying her wakeup offense (but delayed wakeup may ruin it anyway).

Something I would have LIKED to have seen: recovery reduced on all her fireballs. Her fireballs, despite these buffs, are still BY FAR the WORST of the traditional fireballs in the game. They are nearly impossible to use as pokes because they take forever to startup and recover. Her LP fireball is so bad that it's even punishable on HIT. It's ridiculous how ass they are for absolutely everything outside of FADCs.

EDIT: Checking frame data for Rose, and it actually doesn't seem like the faster fireballs by themselves really add any additional FADC combos. Maybe I missed something but it doesn't seem like it. Too bad, since the faster startup really doesn't help the fireballs become better pokes.

If what I hear is correct, Zangief is going to be the worst he's ever been in the SF4 series.

By which I mean, like, he'll probably wind up in the bottom 10 characters come USF4.

Man, I was mostly joking about maining Hakan, but it seems like he's the only grappler that'll be good come USF4. And hilariously enough he'll probably be a top tier.

also i just want to say that i think the irony is hilarious that Capcom said that Zangief is the combo-orientated grappler, and then decided to remove all his combos

in other news, at least if I keep practicing with Boxer, I may eventually be able to pull of bullshit like this!:



EDIT: sorry about the 12x post or whatever, I'm just really mad right now.

Tourneys coming up for me. FFM Rumble this weekend and DreamHack Winter the next.
Hype

Good luck!

Capcom's choice of U1/U2/Super for Hugo is severely disappointing. Really wanted Hammer Frenzy to be U1, his AA grab to be U2, and his 1-frame grab to be Super. Siiiigh, oh well...

Anyway it seems to be confirmed that Capcom just hates Gief. Can't combo into any form of GH from lights, nerfed footsies by reducing SPD range and increasing sMP hurtbox.

I just don't understand why they'd nerf GH so much. All regular forms of green hands were virtually useless to begin with. Jab GH can be safe on hit, but it's still disadvantageous so you can't apply any pressure afterwards at all - and besides, you can't combo into Jab GH anyway! EX GH knocking down is not going to help whatsoever. 16 frames of startup is ludicrous and can't combo from anything other than close cancellable normals. His footsie game is going to be C. Viper levels of terrible, and his close range offense has only gotten worse with delayed wakeup.

Also, it's hilarious that they'd rub salt in the wound by making EX Tiger Knee 0 on block. They really want Sagat-Gief to be a 10-0 matchup.

If these changes end up being final I would be very surprised if Gief ends up outside of the bottom 5 (bottom 10 if, as I expect, all the new characters are going to be garbage as well).

i cant stop laughing

So you prolly heard already but they announced at #CapCup2013 that the 5th character is female

I got some pics I took I'll upload them when I get around to moving them from my phone to someplace better

Oh also I saw/brushed by several FGCelebreties, including but not limited to:

Infiltration (he is taller than I thought he was! Like a whole head or more taller than I am)
Justin Wong
Chris G
Alex Valle
Eliver Ling
Mike Ross
Gootecks (wanted to say hi but didn't get a chance since he was like being constantly talked to by someone, idk like his girlfriend or something? and also he was talkin up lots of other folks too)
Filipino Champ
PR Rog
Alioune
Like all the other competitors I'm too lazy to list now
UltraDavid (heavy bearded)
James Chen (he looks different in real life)
Yoshinori Ono
Marn
IFC Yipes (he asked where the bathroom was)

I'm sure there were others that I forgot to list here

Anyways it was #MadHype and I #WouldGoAgain

I could also go to Hadocon V tomorrow, kind of debating whether or not I should go. I'm fuckin tired heh

Oh yeah, forgot to mention, Apex 2014 is happening right now, the world's biggest Smash tournament (I think):

www.twitch.tv/teamsp00ky

if anyone is interested. They're doing Smash 64 Loser's Finals at the moment, they also have Melee and Project M tournaments.

Edition Select Ultra SF4?!!? I can.... I can play Super Gief in Ultra?

Thank you Capcombofiend Thank you

So.... Has anyone here ever played Tatsunoko vs Capcom?
I freaking love that game.